Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Non-vehicle specific forum for tuning all ford ecu's 1994-2004, including the 1994-1995 Mustang, 93-98 Mark VIII, 99+ F-150, 99-04 Mustang, 03-04 Cobra, 99-04 Lightning and Harley Davidson F-150

CBAZA, CDAN4, CRAJ0, CVAF1, FBGI0, OMAE2, RZASA

Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby MAC_Auto_Brokers » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:50 pm

Hi Everyone, I thought I would introduce myself. I'm Andy and I just picked up a 2002 Harley Davidson F-150 through the auction. It is completely stock at 110k miles and a fresh engine rebuild. I'd like to jump into some DIY tuning so I ordered a Moates quarterhorse, it should be here on Friday. In the meantime I thought I would start a thread and ask some basic questions.

1) What strategy should I use? OMAE2 or RZASA?
2) How much timing can I add to a stock truck? Is 14 at WOT a good place to shoot for?
3) Any recommendations on a MAF transfer I can drop in or is the stock tune accurate?

About me - I have experience with TunerPro when I did a Vortec head swap and cam upgrade on a 1995 K1500 Chevy. I have some HP Tuners experience for my 2002 Corvette as well. I am still very new at the tuning game (this will be my 3rd vehicle so far) and completely new to the world of Ford tuning.

Thanks!

AC
MAC_Auto_Brokers
General Poster
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:19 pm
Name: Andy
Vehicle Information: 2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson SuperCrew. All-stock!

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby decipha » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:33 pm

omae2

rzasa doesnt support the 4r100

yep 14 is what I shoot for, 11 is stock for reference

the stock maf is accurate

I will add a stock base tune to the downloads section and an updated def tonight
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 16769
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby decipha » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:45 pm

posted
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 16769
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby MAC_Auto_Brokers » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:46 pm

Michael, thanks for the hookup!

All,

Many of the tables don’t have column and row headers. Did I read somewhere that the column and row headers can’t be defined in the ADX because it will corrupt the bin? This is really tripping me up (not knowing what my headers are). Any advice?

Is there a list of all the timing tables and functions I should modify for OMAE2? I read through the section on how to simplify the timing (http://efidynotuning.com/saftot.htm) but not all of the tables in this write up are the same as OMAE2.

Should I be applying any patches (like the perload hack?)

Is there any reason I should not just set the borderline, altitude and MBT spark tables all the same?

Sorry for the noob questions!

AC
MAC_Auto_Brokers
General Poster
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:19 pm
Name: Andy
Vehicle Information: 2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson SuperCrew. All-stock!

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby decipha » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:28 pm

yeah no prob

the adx is for datalogging that shows you your dashboard when realtime viewing it

i think your referring to the xdf which is your definition file that you use to see the parameters in your tune. If you don't see a linked axis scaling its because I didn't link it. I didn't like it cuz i didn't find a need to. If you need something linked just let me know and I can add it in no problem. I have no idea what your talking about when you say corrupting the bin but no thats not possible. The only way to corrupt the bin is to change values that you shouldn't be changing.

I already haven timing simplified in the eko3 base tune. Simply plug in the spark value you want at the load and rpm in the borderline knock table fn2200

all of the spark write up applies to omae2 or at least the majority of it

what perload hack patch?
the only patch you need to apply is the dma datalogging patch so you can log

borderline knock is your spark table, altitude is already disabled (all 60s) and mbt spark should not be changed unless your engine changes. MBT spark is used for torque calculations and affects transmission line pressure idle spark torque modulation among other things.
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 16769
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby MAC_Auto_Brokers » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:13 pm

Can you link the axis scaling for FN2220 borderline ECT Adjustment as well as FN2230 borderline ACT adjustment?

I think I have this sorted. Please tell me if this covers the basics - The borderline table will be most often get used for spark. The number in the table is added or subtracted to based on ACT and ECT. The ACT gets filtered through FN725A (ACT BDL Mult) and FN2230 (borderline ACT adjustment). ECT works the same way through FN724A and FN2220.

Seems like ECT isn doing much as long as the coolant temp is around 200F and ACT isn't doing much as long as the air temp is around 104F.

Does this sound about right?

Where is the ACT temp sensor? Before or after the SC?

Also, how can I buy you a beer?
MAC_Auto_Brokers
General Poster
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:19 pm
Name: Andy
Vehicle Information: 2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson SuperCrew. All-stock!

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby decipha » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:39 pm

i never added in those axis cuz i don't use them. I simplify spark so those tables are useless to me. I have added them in and will be posted a new xdf shortly.

no the borderline table is not most often used. you have the base spark (altitude spark table) and its 10 or so modifiers that affect it. Then borderline is a completely separate calculation with its 10 or so modifiers. Then at any given time the minimum spark is delivered to the engine.

yep that sounds about right as far as the temp modifiers fn724 and fn725

there is an inlet temp sensor in the maf inlet box and another act2 sensor on the passenger side of the engine in the midplate that measures the actual discharge temp of the blower and is used for fn725

lol
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 16769
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby MAC_Auto_Brokers » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:11 pm

Today I got the QH installed. I was not able to read the stock BIN from the truck but was able to get the truck going with the BIN I got from this site. Haven't driven around yet. Just sat in the driveway and revved lightly to make sure all is well.

Some basic questions about the QH:

I know QH is not meant for "permanent installation" but I'll probably do that for awhile.

Question - How do I know if I am running off stock tune or on emulator?

Can I set the emulator to be ON with TunerPro RT running then just go about my daily driving?

Datalog for fun.... see anything troublesome here?

Thanks,

AC
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
MAC_Auto_Brokers
General Poster
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:19 pm
Name: Andy
Vehicle Information: 2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson SuperCrew. All-stock!

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby gamh44 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:31 pm

I have had my QH in for 8 months or so. It is one of the newer replaceable battery types so I am not worried about it running out. Only issue is that if the battery dies while I am out an about, I would need to remove the QH to go back to a stock tune to keep driving. Maybe I should keep a spare battery in the car ... Hmmm! Anyone have any idea how long these might last while permanently installed?

If you have the QH installed, you are no longer running the stock BIN. Everything is running off the QH. Unless of course you upload the stock BIN to the QH.

Once you have a tune that is running (which is sounds like you have), no need for TPRT at all. Disconnect your laptop and drive to your heart's content. Laptop and TPRT is only required to make tune changes or collect logs.
gamh44
General Poster
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:54 pm
Name: Geof
Vehicle Information: Cobra replica. 302 HO from Mustang. 8LD ECU with chip. Massflo (Pro-M) EFI. Trickflow heads and cam. QH Jaybird and F3v2 chip. TunerPro RT.

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby MAC_Auto_Brokers » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:07 pm

Thanks gamh44. After messing around with it for a bit I realized the QH will be running all the time. Whatever tune is in it is what it will be running.

Turns out my stock tube wasn’t corrupted. I was just a bit confused with the PATS code (which has a lot of FF in it on my stock BIN. Also the VIN wasn’t coded into my stock BIN either. Pretty sure the VIN is just for OBD2 anyway. I got tripped up with PATS and somehow had myself locked out with theft flashing but have it sorted now.

Steep learning curve here but I think I’m finally ready to get started in the actual tune.

I’m just running a stock Harley Davidson truck for now. I’m gonna play with timing (any suggestions on an improved table for a stock truck?) and also try and get the MPG up a little. Maybe try for a lean cruise mode.

AC
MAC_Auto_Brokers
General Poster
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:19 pm
Name: Andy
Vehicle Information: 2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson SuperCrew. All-stock!

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby decipha » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:32 pm

theres several people that use QHs for permanent installs. Its not advisable but many people do it. I'm guilty of it myself lol. My cousin tonys white 95 gt was one of the first vehicles to get a QH (afaik it was used for some of the development) but it been having the same QH in it since 2008 and its battery never died. This was of course before the wrong spec resistors were accidentally assembled on the QHs when it went to mass production. I would suspect the battery should be good for a few years. I wouldn't count on it lasting forever but I wouldn't necessarily be worried about it anytime soon. You could always use a volt meter and check its voltage. Anything over 1v and it shouldn't be an issue.

if your have the QH on the ecu then the stock tune is disabled unless the QH is specifically disabled which isn't written in to tunerpro to do since it could complicate things for some people especially beginners. So for all intents and purposes as long as the QH in in its running on the QHs tune.

yea you can emulate whenever you want no problem, emulating is only to make changes in realtime it won't affect anything. I see Geof got you situated on that though.

log looks perfect

you can download my custom EKO3 base tune off the downloads section and compare it to your stock tune. Its next to the stock tune and says stock 03 hd. I see I should probably rename that to say something more easily to recognize. Simply copy your pats code from your stock tune over to it and write it to the QH. Its the best calibration you'll be able to get for a stock 02/03 lightning/harley.. I made it for all the harleys and lightning I tune so figured I'd share with the world.
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 16769
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby MAC_Auto_Brokers » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:43 pm

Michael,

Do you recommend colder plugs with the EKO3 tune? If so, which ones?

Can you point me in the right direction on Speedo cal? Someone put 24”wheels on this whip. I’m going to replace them but in the meantime, I’d like the Speedo to be correct.

AC
MAC_Auto_Brokers
General Poster
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:19 pm
Name: Andy
Vehicle Information: 2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson SuperCrew. All-stock!

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby decipha » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:33 pm

no, stock plugs for stock engines, the tr plugs everyone recommends for the harleys and lightnings are actually HOTTER than the stock plug so don't let any of them try to persuade you they are just ignorant and follow the masses

download the WAZE app on your phone and get on the interstate. Set the cruise at 70mph and see what your actual speed is at the bottom left of the waze app. Go to your tire_rev scalar and multiply that number by your speed difference. You'll have to play with it to get it perfect.
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 16769
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby MAC_Auto_Brokers » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:19 am

This is tons of fun. Learning lots about how Ford views the world.

As for the tune- I am getting knock at all times. Everywhere from idle through WOT. It always reads 7 in the histogram. The voltage is flat. So it’s not real knock. I think it’s pulling timing as well. Not hurting anything but not exactly best to make power either. Not sure how to proceed?? Can I adjust the knock threshold? If so, where and what tables?

All else looks good. LAMSE has a nice pretty sine wave on both 1 and 2 in closed loop. When I go WOT LAMSE flatlines to like .768 or something (so 11.2 AFR commanded?) which is good. If this was a GM I’d check to see that the narrowband reading went to 900mv or higher to confirm that I was at least richer than 14.7, but that doesn’t seem to be an option here. I’ve looked at HEGO and IEGO but both do not seem to be used in this tune. Any advice on how to confirm what the narrow bands are actually telling me? I haven’t installed the WB yet. Really thinking I don’t need to on a stock truck.

Last thing, looks like the MAF reads around 30-31 at WOT. I’m thinking that’s a bit low but maybe my expectations are off. It’s rated at 340 HP and with the tune I was hoping to squeeze out another 10-15. In short, I was hoping to see around 35-36 on the MAF.

Thanks for any insight of feedback.
MAC_Auto_Brokers
General Poster
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:19 pm
Name: Andy
Vehicle Information: 2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson SuperCrew. All-stock!

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby decipha » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:08 pm

What your saying makes no sense

first why would you have knock?

its almost impossible to get knock at idle

what reads 7?

what voltage is flat?

whats pulling timing?

what knock threshold?

i may not have the hegos logging i'll have to check and see

all lightnings and harleys are notorious for throwing rods through the block when the 2nd fuel pump melts. Its very common so a wideband should be installed on all of them.
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 16769
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby MAC_Auto_Brokers » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:50 pm

I will get the WB hooked up.

first why would you have knock?
its almost impossible to get knock at idle

    I don't know why I would have knock. That's why I posted. To be clear - I don't believe there is actually engine knock at all, and certainly not at idle.

what reads 7?
    If you review the 'first log.xdl' file I posted above, go to History Tables, dropdown on Hist_Knk. It ALWAYS reads 7.
    I will also post a log file from two days ago.

what voltage is flat?
    KNK_SNS1_CNT reads out 114 mv all of the time.

what knock threshold?
    My thought is that there must be some threshold value for the computer to decide there is engine knock, and when the computer sees anything above that value it removes timing. Some kind of logic like 'IF knock sensor > 100 mv then knock = true'.

whats pulling timing?
    On a GM vehicle (sorry but that's my only reference) the computer will retard the timing if it thinks there is engine knock. Since my computer thinks there is knock, I assumed it must be pulling timing.
MAC_Auto_Brokers
General Poster
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:19 pm
Name: Andy
Vehicle Information: 2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson SuperCrew. All-stock!

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby MAC_Auto_Brokers » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:52 pm

Log file from 3/23. No changes have been made to the base tune other than to copy over the PATS code and enable data logging. I just dropped in EKO3_190311 and started driving and logging.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
MAC_Auto_Brokers
General Poster
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:19 pm
Name: Andy
Vehicle Information: 2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson SuperCrew. All-stock!

Re: Tuning my Stock 2002 Harley Davidson F150

Unread postby decipha » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:43 pm

the harley and lightninga do not have an active knock sensor thus what your seeing is just a junk value
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 16769
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer


Return to EEC-V & SN95 Tuning

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest