Tuning 4.6 Vortech

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Tuning 4.6 Vortech

Unread postby Pappacosworth » Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:21 pm

I'm tuning now 2007 Mustang with Procharger V3 without cooler. Predator with canned tuned was corrupted, so I started from stock. IAT was not relocated so it showed outside temps all the time. Car had no power or heavy detonation. I relocated IAT near intake flaps. I had to roadtest all day dialing spark.
Now it has power, knock correction is under 2 degrees all the time. Full load afr on the rich side, λ 0.68-0.73.Next I'm testing corrected maf curve. Fuel base is commanding 0.8. If knock occurs, which is better: let it be rich or retard spark. Here is current IAT correction that seems to work.

IAT vs advance
° Spark
-17.7 25
10.0 20
37.7 5
51.6 -20
65.5 -40
93.3 -100
123.3 -154
°C
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Re: Eliminating knock 4.6 Vortech

Unread postby decipha » Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:38 pm

well first off it needs meth injection if its non intercooled

you should never start any tune from any modified or can tunes always start from known good stock file always unless you have a reliable base to start from

you mean you moved the IAT to the intake plenum correct? So now it is seeing actual heated aircharge after the blower correct?

when its tuned properly the knock sensor should never have to pull timing unless you get bad fuel, knock sensors should only add a little timing on a properly dialed in tune, it works better that way and its safer

you need to dial in the fuel, keep in mind lowering the maf reduces load so be sure you command lower timing at a lower load up top as wot load will be lower

knock is too much timing has nothing to do with fuel unless its severely lean, you need to reduce timing. Anytime it knocks yank out at least 4 degrees in that cell. Should never knock on a boosted setup.

set 25 20 and 5 to 0 !!! NEVER allow spark advance for colder iats or colder ects, if the sensor ever freaks out and reports the wrong voltage it will destroy the engine.

I take it your tuning it with diablo?

Did you simplify spark?
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Re: Eliminating knock 4.6 Vortech

Unread postby Pappacosworth » Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:14 pm

I use Hptuners. I'll fix IAT curve, thanks for advice. IAT temps are max 70 degrees c. It has no meth, bolt-on Vortech kit with max 0.6 bar boost (8.7 psi).
There is MBT and Borderline spark, which one I use to retard spark.
When I floor it, afr goes lean. I need to adjust manifold volume, it's unaltered. I swapped GT500 47 lbs injectors to this, and parameters from similar calibration. Also car has high flow pump, I have modified it's tables too, I managed to correct fuel pressure dropping at high loads.
13 maf.hpt
current tune
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Re: Eliminating knock 4.6 Vortech

Unread postby Pappacosworth » Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:30 pm

here is Accel Transient Fuel Gain table RPM vs Vacuum. I don't know what units values are, multiplier? I apparently need to modify this, hard when you don't know what it is doing.


Code: Select all
   0   3   6   9   12   15   19   23   27   30   inHg
650   0.0212999992072582   0.0333000011742115   0.0405000001192093   0.0504000000655651   0.0571000017225742   0.0582000017166138   0.0579999983310699   0.0579999983310699   0.0575999990105629   0.0573000013828278
1000   0.0309999994933605   0.0456000007688999   0.0553999990224838   0.0676999986171722   0.0772999972105026   0.0780000016093254   0.0799999982118607   0.0820000022649765   0.0839999988675117   0.10700000077486
1250   0.0384000018239021   0.0564999990165234   0.0685999989509583   0.0821999981999397   0.096000000834465   0.100000001490116   0.109999999403954   0.119999997317791   0.140000000596046   0.159999996423721
1500   0.0590000003576279   0.0885000005364418   0.107600003480911   0.126399993896484   0.140400007367134   0.159999996423721   0.170000001788139   0.180000007152557   0.189999997615814   0.200000002980232
2000   0.0843999981880188   0.122900001704693   0.149399995803833   0.176400005817413   0.199100002646446   0.219999998807907   0.239999994635582   0.259999990463257   0.259999990463257   0.28600001335144
2500   0.12559999525547   0.18469999730587   0.224399998784065   0.263000011444092   0.291599988937378   0.310000002384186   0.319999992847443   0.330000013113022   0.340000003576279   0.360000014305115
3500   0.136000007390976   0.200000002980232   0.243000000715256   0.284799993038177   0.315600007772446   0.331900000572205   0.360000014305115   0.379999995231628   0.389999985694885   0.389999985694885
4500   0.160999998450279   0.236800000071526   0.287800014019012   0.330599993467331   0.370000004768372   0.393400013446808   0.400000005960464   0.419999986886978   0.439999997615814   0.46000000834465
rpm


After maf correction, knock is lower. load vs rpm

Code: Select all
°   500   750   1000   2200   2600   3000   4250   4750   5250   5750   6500   rpm
0                                 
10      0.0   0.0   0.0                     
20      0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0               
30      0.0   0.2   0.1      -0.1   0.0            
40      0.0   1.7   1.2         0.0   0.0         
50      0.0   0.2   0.0   0.3   0.0   0.0            
60         0.1   0.3   -0.4      0.5   -0.2   0.0   0.0   
70         0.4   0.8   -0.4   0.0   0.4   0.1         
80               0.3   -0.3   0.3            
90                  -0.8   -0.1            
100      0.0   0.3            0.5   0.9   1.0   0.2   
110                        0.2   -0.2   0.1   0.8
120                                 
130                                 
140                                 
150                                 
%
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Re: Eliminating knock 4.6 Vortech

Unread postby decipha » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:14 pm

borderline but you have to simplify spark to get it to function correctly

first you need to get the base fuel dialed in before messing with transients, you can go cut manifold volume in half though until you do

I have 3.6.26 hpt sw on my laptop, says it too old wont let me look at the tune file

70c is 158f, thats not ideal for making power but not too bad considering it doesn't have any way of cooling the air

I have attached my spark table from a 2010 gt w/ a procharger I tuned a few months ago. Should be a good start for you to at least get it in the ballpark. I HAVE THE LOAD SCALED BY 1.5 SO MULTIPLY THOSE LOAD VALUES BY 1.5X IF YOUR TUNE IS NOT SCALED. For example 0.9 load in my spark table would be 1.35 load on an unscaled tune. 0.5 load is .75 load on an unscaled tune etc...

btw I'm a procharger dealer. We do quite a bit of them.
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Re: Eliminating knock 4.6 Vortech

Unread postby Pappacosworth » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:47 am

I tested Vortech programmer (Predator) and I could read the tune. I got maf curve from that, and my calculated curve was really near that. I looked timing quide, but there is many differences in software and ecm calibration. I modified act and ect spark settings per quide. Manifold volume had bad effect to drivability so I use stock value. Car feels rather good now. Do I have to make something for trans before going to dyno.
Do you have HPT device? software is free to download.

Vortech V3 maf curve (no cooler)
Code: Select all
g/s   Airflow
0.814000010490417   7.7791094771442
0.96399998664856   10.270087272922
1.08800005912781   12.8669037281554
1.19500005245209   16.0783379975836
1.28600001335144   18.7515092217852
1.45000004768372   24.1333826601127
1.52300000190735   26.4368751395542
1.6599999666214   32.4242948417143
1.89199995994568   42.32848483474
1.99199998378754   47.4654192036329
2.16300010681152   57.6606630318424
2.31599998474121   65.6801730996189
2.45499992370605   74.2379489162432
2.58200001716614   83.304510196056
2.80699992179871   102.036358684412
2.99699997901917   122.05187210333
3.08899998664856   132.368832958354
3.21399998664856   147.510510400265
3.40599989891052   172.719665741721
3.57999992370605   197.807857465473
3.73799991607666   222.155934685766
3.8840000629425   244.230749516558
4.15000009536743   290.766314080308
4.38100004196167   332.576179480317
4.69600009918213   397.383205493697
5   478.156650401108
V
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Re: Eliminating knock 4.6 Vortech

Unread postby decipha » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:55 am

I do I dont rly use hpt tho but ill update it soon as i get a chance

for the trans youll have to make sure you have a higher torque value at the upper loads in the engine torque table so trans pressure doesnt drop at wot and shifting
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Re: Tuning 4.6 Vortech

Unread postby Pappacosworth » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:05 pm

Was so hot in here, IAT temps were 94 celcius, dyno gave only 380 hp. Limited throttle opening to limit power, gained 10 hp because boost and IAT lowered 5 celcius. HPT has dyno setting for trans : Trans - General - Test Lock In Gear > Enable, Test Gear Value = 4
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