Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:42 am

look at time:
35-47

hego is sitting more time in rich...less time in lean..

it indicates to ecu that mixture is little richer???

but AFR innovate LC2 is telling LEAN....

this is with slope 33!!!! real slope should be 38.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:03 am

ok, partially sorted

problem what LOW slope and brakepoint 0,000153.

HI SLOPE only 33 is getting perfect results at low loads...

but as you can see the logs, sometimes it is out of lambse....especially when you open thortle...it takes 2-3secs to establish AFR = LAMBSE.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:41 pm

Viktor,

Review the attached MAF comparison.

For the same Engine capacity / RPM / TP / MAP, physics dictate you should have the same MAF reading.

You have an air leak, MAF, wiring, or ECU ADC input issue.
Your MAF reading is 40% low.

You need to do the multimeter tests, previously requested.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:00 pm

yes.....problem is MAF....is cheating!

but this has no solution...so

I tried today multiply MAF transfer by 20%!

car is runnig WELL under load.... AFR is following LAMBSe...not same..but following!!!

but when low load FULL thortle car is "sticking" :D in second I have AFR 22, something is cutting fuel....
so 20% + in MAF curve from 0-100Kg/hr is making troubles...
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:36 pm

midnight_man wrote:yes.....problem is MAF....is cheating!

but this has no solution...so
..


Replace it.
Cheers
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:04 am

yes but :D where to get another? will be another better?

I have this MAF at home...anybody knows what is it? what MAF curve?

thanks!
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby gamh44 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:37 am

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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:44 am

much thanks!

16.00___1168.80
5.00___ 1168.80
4.80___ 1040.48
4.50___ 872.56
4.30___ 773.71
4.10___ 683.41
3.90___ 599.45
3.70___ 522.46
3.50___ 450.85
3.30___ 386.22
3.10___ 327.92
2.90___ 275.01
2.70___ 228.12
2.50___ 186.93
2.30___ 151.45
2.10___ 121.35
1.90___ 96.00
1.70___ 74.14
1.50___ 56.08
1.40___ 48.48
1.30___ 42.14
1.20___ 35.49
1.10___ 30.10
1.00___ 25.66
0.90___ 20.91
0.80___ 17.43
0.70___ 13.62
0.60___ 10.77
0.50___ 7.92
0.00___ 7.92
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby decipha » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:43 am

yall do know the maf transfer is listed in the drop down menu on the homepage correct?
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:50 am

I saw that but there are only car models....I was not sure what car model belongs to that MAF!
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:19 am

ok...MAF sorted...

new maf is measuring over 700kgh ...but there is another problem...

semms ecu cant calculate more then 150 LOAD...

when accelerating car and load 150 comes...there is straight row in log...

in this point, fuel PW is decreased..and real AFR is boosting up...because turbo is still pushing.


you can look at log. 67.7 time.....
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:18 am

graph...
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:39 am

is there an inferred load table?
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:04 pm

sure

but is table when MAF/MAP will fail not?
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:58 pm

Post your beb please.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:08 pm

I tried to play with slopes... but looks that has no effect on that "cut"...

I will try tomorrow ...lower slopes.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:22 pm

Can you log ZFAR and FLAGS_2 as well.

Comparing logs, your larger exhaust turbine VS OEM has significantly changed the relationship between MAP and VMAF/LOAD
As part of failure management, the EEC cross references inputs and calculations. When reality is too far from software, default values are applied.

I see you have adjusted WG desired load to a big number across the board. Return to some realistic numbers the turbo/engine combo can actually do.

You may have fallen foul of WGLODLIMF, by putting in desired load values that the turbo/engine can't deliver.
Adjust FN530
Try adjusting FN1036A
Have a look at VMAF at 52.662 seconds in the log and VMAMAX.

What was your reason for changing FN532?

Put BPMAX back to the OEM value.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:16 am

ok, load sorted.....estimated load table was reason!

but now...I have 183 load....and at this point WASTE GATE duty cycle drops to 0....and you must cycle ign to make it work again.

so there is some error ...and car is shutting down boost...

I tried to set UP all limiters at wategate load erros...but without results.
seems that error is not covered by GHAJ0 :(


any help?
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:40 pm

SORTED..some overboosting tresholds and MAP checks was reason. wastegate duty is holding...sometimes only on 60%..no 90 but this will be due to more corrections I have done on
wastegate scalars/tables..

but...another problem comes..

LOAD is 200% in 3/4 of accelerating :D then it is straight line at 200%....

is there something to do with it? or just this ecu cant manage it?
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:05 pm

There are no problems, just solutions waiting to be implemented :idea:

Looking at this last BEB and log you sent me...

You have hit 199.997 load at log ET 82.349 sec.
You have hit 98.7% injector duty cycle at Log ET 83.722 sec.
You have hit 4.95V VMAF at LOG ET 83.536 sec.

You can force the ECU to do more than 200%. It is a concept called scaling.
You have to tell the ECU some carefully coordinated lies to scale the inputs.
Time to read decipha’s scaling write up and think about the implications for the WG control.

BUT you have bigger decisions to make, you have run out of MAF and Injector.
What upgrades do you want to do……
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:18 pm

ok guys :)

if anybody can look at it? :)
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby decipha » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:04 pm

what is there to look at? I think jsa sumed it up
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:57 am

You need to reduce your minimum pulse width, say make it 0.5sec so your lift off AFR should be a lot better.

Try adjusting your Injector offset down as well as Lo Slope down. Possibly tweak breakpoint a bit. See if you can get tip in from idle to be less rich.
Beyond that you could tweak Transient Fuel if need be.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:39 pm

ok guys :)

thanks a lot again!

I have 2 problems left:

1. lean part in every acceleration when I push thortle at MAX.....1-2 sec are leaner (+1AFR) then ecu will sort it

2. when you just touch pedal for 1 sec...to little “kick” rpm up.... for example to 1100-1200 rpm
it is going 9 AFR!!!! ...when jump to 22 AFR.....and 3 of 5 times it wants to stall....

I think it sees RICH mixture...it wants to leaner mixture...and result of that = engine stalls.

0,5 min pW doesnt help

moving brakepoint to 0,000120...doesnt help to

this 2 things has NO EFFECT on that.

I am runnig 0.000040 normally.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby decipha » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:15 am

it sounds like you need to dial in your fuel or more than likely with that fluctuation you have some input problems
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:05 am

I cant move slopes ....they are dialed as best as possible.

when I started to move LO slope at idle... KAMRF is starting

at hi slope I am good at high load...entering bigger number causing lean mixture at load.

There must be something else which is causing this problems :(
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby decipha » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:32 am

input problems
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:13 pm

thanks a lot for opinion ;)

MAF is NEW.... any other input to check?

you can see in picture..

you "kick" thortle little.... PW jumps to 12ms!, AFR jumps to 9....ISC jumps to 41%

Then engine is deccelerating...there ECU commands 0,5ms PW...when RPM reachs 1091 ecu is commanding higher PW!

as PW is increasing to 2.4ms, rpms are going under IDLE! dropping to 634 rpm...with 2,3ms PW... you can see + 1% ISCV
rpms are going back...but little over idle (smoooooth wave)....then ecu sort idle...


sotimes rpm drops under 500 rpm, or engine stalls...

car has modified TB + 4mm diameter....

hego is moved from turbocharger housing to exhaust pipe, difference is cca 10-12cm...
should edit hego delay pip multipier?
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby decipha » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:52 pm

age of maf is irrelevant, has no affect on tune or inputs

PW in itself is pretty useless

sounds like you need to dial in dashpot

nope the pip multiplier stays constant but you can kick up the hego delay if closed loop is correcting too much

you have other issues though, make sure you maf voltage is stable and doesn't fluctuate
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:00 am

guys...

how ECU deals with PCV air going to inlet ? from breathing system

when I unplug PCV hose from inlet, and plumb inlet.....lambse goes to 18..... so engine is very rich!

is it normal?
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:35 am

midnight_man wrote:thanks a lot for opinion ;)
car has modified TB + 4mm diameter....


As previously said, you need to look at TB mechanical stop in association with dashpot.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:37 pm

Just for clarify for someone else!

Most of that problems was caused due to bad align of secondary HALL effect sensor (same as CAM sensor). Injector timing was off then....

After align that hall sensor timing, injectors are bigger :)..I can boost more with lower injector dutycycle and more boost...

but engine died....maybe due to long time running on moved injector timing, maybe oil problems... 1-4 big end conrod bearings damaged, 4th worn off...
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby decipha » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:08 am

that blowes, as far as the pcv being blocked off causing lambse's to remove excess fuel, that means your pcv system is leaking and your sucking in unmetered air
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:18 am

Hi decipha,

thanks..

why you think that PCV is blocked?

I think one of the biggest problem was cheating AFR factor and big injector duty....it caused too much fuel in exhaust manifold...that burning fuel in exhaust manifold
caused rich AFR readings...but real AFR in engine was lean (propably).

Car has big exhaust and custom manifold which caused low back-pressure :(

I had EGT sensor in turbo, there was peak 720°C ....but I should have it in exhaust manifold
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby decipha » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:39 am

I was responding to your post, see 5 posts up ^^

what ever you were doing to your pcv you were fixing an air leak unless your fuel was off just outside of the normal idle mafv

I have no idea what your trying to say, how would you get fuel leaked in to the exhaust?

big exhaust usually causes a false lean condition, impossible to make a false rich condition unless your o2s are defective, in any case thats at idle and low flow conditions, once you get flow through the exhaust its not gonna make any difference, can't hurt an engine by running it too lean at idle or low flows worse possible case it just misfires

720 isn't enough to melt down anything
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:37 am

cosworth has 17°overlap on camshafts...in that time fuel from intake manifold can enter into exhaust and burn here...that is causing false AFR reading.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby decipha » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:03 pm

you should have your injector timing set so your spraying fuel after the exhaust valve has closed
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:02 am

ofcourse but at 6000rpm you have 5ms to inject fuel.... and real injector pW is 10+ms....
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby decipha » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:26 am

at 6k rpm your not gonna get any overlap
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:20 am

why you think?
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