2013 GT Ignition Timing Issue

All 2005+ Vehicles, including the 2000+ Lincoln LS, 2002+ Explorer, 2002+ Thunderbird, 2004+ F150, 2011+ Mustang 5.0L Coyote

2013 GT Ignition Timing Issue

Unread postby tomoutlaw » Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:51 pm

decipha wrote:Im putting this out there to raise awareness a bit, this is an issue ive dealt with a few times already

This past sunday I tuned yet another 2013 5.0 Mustang GT that was throwing a check engine light with lean codes.
Just as I suspected it too had a MAF swap, it seems to be a pretty common swap to slap the C&L cold air intake on there and install the factory MAF in the LARGER diameter housing.

Anytime you change the MAF housing inside diameter you are changing the actual MAF characteristics sampled by the sensor, this will result in a lower MAF frequency at idle and as a result the engine will run lean because it is calculating less airflow. This is most apparent during warm up while the ecu is at the adaptive kam clip limit.

Typically when idling for a while from a cold crank the ecu will hit the clip limit and set the code and illuminate the check engine lamp, it does it mainly during warm up because the engine needs just that little bit more fuel than what it can adapt to.

In all of the coyote tunes ive done with the C&L CAI I have always found that multiplying the maf curve by 1.3 results in the fuel trims settling between .98 - 1.02

These engines seem to love fuel, theres not much to be gained from leaning her out. They seem to be pretty happy at 12:1 on the big end 6500+
some of the coyotes are programmed to run stoich at WOT from the factory so keep that in mind if you see stupid lean AFRs at WOT

As for ignition timing, I find the coyotes to be overadvanced down low from the factory, I typically pull out a few degrees down low, I find it makes the engine smoother. Also when the converter locks its typical to get knock retard and the stupid low shift points programmed into the auto tunes don't help any. I always go to the shift scheduling and add 5 mph to them, makes for a lot less lugging.

While im at it i disable skip shift and add in just a little more shift pressure. The stock shifting is terrible.

Theres been a couple local guys that have broken 3rd during a nitrous shift. So keep that in mind if your spraying.

I find these engines to be very happy with about 25 degrees of timing, however, due to all the coyote engines failing from cyl #8, i pull out 4 degrees on the #8 cylinder, I recommend you do the same as well for safety.

Also if your getting misfire codes it may be due to needing the 'factory parameters' relearned. I'm not sure exactly what they do but this was an issue I was told about after getting a clutch replaced. This can only be done by a dealership AFAIK.


So I was hoping to find help at this forum, sct is nonsense. On my 2013 gt im trying to get timing I command wot down. I adjusted the mvf procharger gave me for their p1sc kit. Looked like they copy and pasted their adjusted optimal performance table every bkt table to every bkt table. Then they did the same w the adjusted mbt table. The mbt and bkt are different so its not like the old way. I noticed all the adjusters and multipliers and adders lol I set the coolant adders to 0 when in norm operating range and removed a bit of spark for high temps in coolant and iat. Basically when I make a pull on the dyno and look at my data log I can not get my commanded bkt. I am afraid to add spark w out getting my commanded first. I always add spark w knock sensor sensitivity up until I wasn't seeing big power gains or until the sensors showed activity and then came down a few degrees but I cant do that if I cant get the spark I command. It changes from pull to pull at times too. I can make a pull back to back and see 30hp diff w no adjustments. I got the af and maf down. My ltft shows 1.07 in most loads and wot fuel on wideband matches.
I also put a 6r80 in and im about to put my torque converter in but want to make sure I have the trans down. I have it shifting based off mph and not rpm and have it shifting around 2200 for lower gears and 2k for 5th and 6th. I shortened 1-2 2-3 3-4 4-5 slip time and added shift pressure for oncoming events and added 10psi to the max. W the new converter being a higher stall I was going to command lock up in 2nd and up at lower rpm and throttle counts to bypass the stall for the street and was going to command lock at wot 500rpm before each shift to get some more time and rpm in lower gears to get it thru the traps in top of 4th. Any suggestions for these thoughts?
Lastly I plan to install cobrajet exhaust cams. They have ruffly 20 degrees more duration than stock but thats the only difference. Would any adjustments need to be made for this? I would think so but I have no clue as to what.
I have to say I miss the old spanishoak ecus. These copperhead ecus are a bit much.
tomoutlaw
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Vehicle Information: 2013 gt mustang 6r80 swap mmr short block full exhaust f1a procharger return fuel system, have these to install ford racing exhaust cams and circle d 4kstall tripple disc converter.
Vehicle 2 Information: 92 mustang coup 5.4 modular twin 88mm turbos fast fuel management 4r70
Vehicle 3 Information: 2013 scion... the white toaster haha

Re: 2011+ 5.0L Coyote Tuning Info

Unread postby decipha » Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:20 pm

sounds like u got a pretty good grasp on things, have u disabled torque oscillation/modulation ?

30hp dif between pulls is insane

as for the cams, I dont suspect it would make that much of a difference, u could always put phase limiters on it to be safe, but im just speculating, Ive never been able to play with a coyote cam swap yet that wasnt locked out
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Re: 2013 GT Ignition Timing Issue

Unread postby tomoutlaw » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:34 pm

The torque reduction switches for the trans are off. Im using sct software btw. yea the dyno numbers just get confusing when dataloged and no big diff in logs but seeing drastic power diff. I was hoping it was converter clutches slipping but they show no sign in data of that. I wish I could datalog spark source but its not available w sct yet. Thats why I set all bkt to match op bkt so there is no guess as to what table its pulling from because they all are the same lol. There must be some logic thats working that im missing or isnt in the software.
As far as cams go have you seen or heard of anyone locking the factory cams out? Just curious to see how it effects avg hp and tq and peak hp tq w factory cams locked. Mmr has complete deletes that save 2lbs on the rotating weight which def would help revs and less stress on the crank, oilpump and chains. I would think the wot power should be close to normal if not higher w phaser deletes because at wot the cams phases to a locked position I believe but could be wrong.
Would like to just run a fast standalone ignition module but im not sure it will work w my trans.
tomoutlaw
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Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:19 pm
Name: tom
Vehicle Information: 2013 gt mustang 6r80 swap mmr short block full exhaust f1a procharger return fuel system, have these to install ford racing exhaust cams and circle d 4kstall tripple disc converter.
Vehicle 2 Information: 92 mustang coup 5.4 modular twin 88mm turbos fast fuel management 4r70
Vehicle 3 Information: 2013 scion... the white toaster haha

Re: 2013 GT Ignition Timing Issue

Unread postby decipha » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:09 pm

no i dont know of anyone whos locked out the stock cams, id imagine you'd loose about 100hp under the curve though, WOT peak hp shouldnt be effected

have you logged knock retard to see if maybe the knock sensor is causing your timing to go ape shit ?
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decipha
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Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce


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