Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:43 pm

Pym wrote:SD111 should have better AI's converters,


Maybe, or just different. Give thought to resistors for ACT and ECT thermistors. A change to external parts may require revised internal parts.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:58 pm

No, no HEGO on the car.
For octane adjust, truly, I do not now how it works and how to connect it.
So one analog channel is used to provide the real 5v voltage, good to know.
Same thing for diagnostic, I do not now how the tool communicates.
EDIS has 2 connections, 1 for RPM, the other for output, but digital.
Yes, I have to follow physical connections to processor to better understand.
But after comparison with 0FAC software, I have not found the perfect match with AD channels.
Same Pins, different channels on same hardware, something else should have changed.
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Vehicle 2 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Puma 1.7 VCT / EEC V LP2-110 MUFF AXPDCB4
Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
Additional Vehicles: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta XR2i / EEC IV SD111 1AFA
Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:21 pm

If your strategy has octane adjust, plugging in a diode on the wiring loom signals the ecu to decrease ignition advance by a programmed amount.

Diagnostics, well that depends on what ford provided for ofab. Jumper/blinky light and / or data communications. The jumper might be on an analog channel. Data has an RS485 chip and nothing to do with analog.

EDIS will be on io not analog.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:40 pm

Good to know, just a diode or a shortcut, it is working like this. I have always though, it was required to plug a specific tool on this connector to setup this parameter.
Diagnostic is like other early EFI managements, a 3 pin connector (in Europe only I think) with a blinky light on diagnostic tool.
I am sorry, I have got less time to work on the subject now, I am replacing my Puma engine, broken by my usual ford dealer, which was not able to properly change the timing belt.
First time I drive a car to the garage, to get it back through a transporter.
The only thing interesting here, is that I was able to get the ECU out of the car, because it was not running.
At least, I will able to provide you a LP2 110 software quickly.
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Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
Additional Vehicles: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta XR2i / EEC IV SD111 1AFA
Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:01 pm

EsCos got both types of diagnostics.

Sorry to here you are being screwed by the ford dealer.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:41 am

I should be able to get the engine out this evening, after this I will be able to understand why crankshaft can not move anymore, why at least one piston has a strange appearance and if my exhaust valves are still in place.

Anyway, I have tried to read EEC V LP2-110 yesterday, but it seems it is not working properly, when not in the car. Result, I think, should be a 4 banks binary, but I only see 2.
I had provided some time ago, a EEC V LEE-101 JOKE file, which seems to be in the same case. I think it is required to read ECU, when contact is on for EEC V.
SAD seems to understand JOKE file, but now way with LP2-110 one. I will retry later.

But just one thing, that I do not understand. I have found a copyright in LP2-110 file, set at 2002. But for this ECU, it should be 1997-1998.
Do you know if this copyright can be changed, when resetting PATS or reprogramming keys ? Or is this a kind of update, done by Ford tools or software through OBD ?
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Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
Additional Vehicles: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta XR2i / EEC IV SD111 1AFA
Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby decipha » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:36 am

the only software that can change the copyright tag is tunerpro or if someone edited it with a hex editor, reprogramming pats doesnt modify the bin

2002 would be for a 2003 model year

it is possible there was a major recall which warranted an updated flash which could possibly be the case but very unlikely
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:39 pm

I add this file. Not sure it is well saved, but it seems to be like all other Puma files I have already seen.
I will provide photos of the ECU later one, they have been done, but not under my hand now.
Do you think, it is really required the reread the binary with contact on ? The loom is not ready for that at the moment.
So, Hardware code is LP2-110, catch code is MUFF.
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Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
Additional Vehicles: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta XR2i / EEC IV SD111 1AFA
Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:15 pm

Yes the ecu must be fully powered to read out the bin.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:32 am

Photos of the LP2-110 EEC V Ecu (MUFF & DUDE). Found information, it is 100% compatible with LP2-111 hardware and software (TAPE), it is 99% compatible with LP2-318 (DIVE & QQP0) with a pin change swap 75 - 80 (water temp).
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Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:25 am

Thanks
Cheers
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:38 pm

Just got a chip used to test writing possibilities. I have read the program on it, before doing anything else and though it was wrong, because incomplete (around 16ko).
Officially this chip should work, so after some copy and paste on its binary, based on the Ford original code, I obtain a real full software which should be usable on a car.
I am talking about strategy 92ED1 and code 2FCD. Available part on chip is related with whole 8 calibration pointers and with the only interesting thing to do on this car (when not modified), ignition advance.
I have always though that a chip (connected to J3 port) should contains the whole software in fully replacement of the original one.
Is it possible for an EEC (IV in this case) to melt its original ROM with another part provided through J3 port ?
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Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:20 pm

Well a Tweecer only uses part of a binary, so yes.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby decipha » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:58 pm

Im not sure if the tweecer serves the full binary or not, the biggest problem with the tweecer is that it is delayed, the stock tune is served first then the tweecer tune is loaded some time later (talking milliseconds or so) at least thats how I interpreted it, I could be wrong though
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:52 pm

Ok. Maybe the tweecer is combining the original with the changes, for the eec.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:48 pm

Anyway, the way EEC is working is surprising, but truly modern for this type of concept.
I assume checksum calculation routine should be overridden to permit to prepare such a chip.
But to be clear, I see no real interest with EEC IV and it small program and I will certainly never use this functionality, but it had to be noticed.
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Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:00 pm

I am not able to properly achieve my goal, for now on strategies 0SLTXA/C. But I can easily replicate my work on other CVH EFI software, it is a good thing.
These strategies are really far from, what was done in the US at the same time or from the one written only 2 years later.
Tables are not used in the same way, so it is a bit difficult to understand their use. That is why, I have to fully understand to code to do it. This is what I am trying to do, from the beginning.
CVH EFI exits in the US too, have you some binaries of them to compare with, even if they were certainly using HEGO sensors since many years ?
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:24 pm

I don't think I have any US CVH. What catchcodes would they be?
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:27 pm

jsa wrote:I don't think I have any US CVH. What catchcodes would they be?

It seems there are plenty of them. I have just looked at the 1.9 CVH engine. You should have some manual / automatic transmissions and probably some CFI not identified.
Interesting, some hardware code are beginning with VM...
86-88 8BB
86-89 UB
87-90 AA2 => CFI
89-90 J9A
91 E1D
91 L1X => SFI
91 U1L
92 L2T
92 H2Y1/H2Y
93 S2E2
93 X2M2 => AT
93 L2T1
94 A4D1
94-95 JAH1
94-95 KKA0
94-95 E4H1
94-95 RBB0
94-95 CAC1
95 MSZ0
95 LXL0
95 JJX0
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:44 pm

I don't have any of those.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:38 am

jsa wrote:I don't have any of those.


I have found two of them for the moment. UB, that I can not read properly and another one which is possibly a SMT-114 KKA0.
KKA0 sounds like a zetec management, HEGO management, presence of adaptive learning table. Too much modern for me.

But many other catch codes can be found for this 1.9 CVH engine.
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Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:30 pm

US 1.9 CVH engines, like related car Escort are just European cheap engines and cars. This is not a bad thing at all, they works fine and are really light.
But this will not help to understand European CVH strategies, a 95 CVH strategy is a 95 strategy like Zetec one.
A 95 CVH engine in the US uses HEGO sensor, catalytic converter and so on.
Because of this search, I am really happy to have discovered this 85 US Escort GT Turbo (CVH 1600), a copy of the European one, but without EDIS nor EEC IV and so on.
For my information, do you know when HEGO sensors and catalytic converters have appeared in the US ?
For non European readers, Europeans could still use (in France at least) lead-containing petrol until year 2000.
Engines (in France at least) have been equipped with HEGO sensors and catalytic converters, since year 1993.

This is why CVH (and Pinto) engines produced between 1989 and 1992 in Europe, are a bit strange.
They are alone, to use EEC IV without HEGO sensor, without adaptive learning table and without anything related with a 14.7 AFR.

I continue to go deeper on their strategies, wasting time on their timers, but this is the only way to progress.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:29 pm

No I don't know about US hego and catalytic intro.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:00 pm

Pym wrote:I add this file. Not sure it is well saved, but it seems to be like all other Puma files I have already seen.
I will provide photos of the ECU later one, they have been done, but not under my hand now.
Do you think, it is really required the reread the binary with contact on ? The loom is not ready for that at the moment.
So, Hardware code is LP2-110, catch code is MUFF.


I have plugged MUFF EEC to read it in car, this time. But result is the same, Contact on or off, same thing than EEC disconnected.
No way to start the car, with reader plugged on EEC.
Is this a 2 bank binary or am I unable to read it properly ?
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:21 pm

Courtesy of the Yahoo EEC tuners group.

Enjoy
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:25 pm

Some other distractions
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:42 pm

jsa wrote:Some other distractions

Thank you John,
it confirms me that it is a 2-bank binary (readable with EEC outside car). My first provided binary was the good one.
So mine is an AXPDCB4 (ford part code starts with 97FB, so MUFF), really near from the AXPDCE4 (XS6F, so TAPE), but with many differences with the AXPDCB3 (1U7A, not sure it is for a 1700 Puma).
These strategies are related with a 2002 copyright for 1998 cars, yes probably a recall.
I can not say more an the differences for now, SAD is not able to recognize them, TSAD yes, but it always crashes for me.
For the others, it is really interesting too, a 1997 copyright and an AXPDAB4 (97FB, so MUFF too) calibration, but really different compared with AXPDCB4.
Yes I have to take some time to understand this codification (and this most interesting thing, what they have changed on MUFF between 1997 and 2002).
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:07 pm

It would be unusual for ford to change the calibration and use the same catchcode. Only one should be MUFF. The others should be a different catchcode. XS6F could be the exception.

The usual approach WITH EEC-IV strategies is the first 4 letters are the strategy name and the last 2 letters are a revision of the calibration.

Ì'm not certain how the 7 letter names breakdown?
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:59 pm

jsa wrote:It would be unusual for ford to change the calibration and use the same catchcode. Only one should be MUFF. The others should be a different catchcode. XS6F could be the exception.

The usual approach WITH EEC-IV strategies is the first 4 letters are the strategy name and the last 2 letters are a revision of the calibration.

Ì'm not certain how the 7 letter names breakdown?

Unusual for EEC IV, yes, but we are talking about the first years for EEC V and the first time it was possible to overwrite program to correct issues.
For hardware LP2-110 :
DUDE was first released from 1997 to 1998, ford part code was 97FB-12A650-HB, so calibration should be something like AXPDXXX and we should find 97FBHB in the binary. Not seen one for now.
MUFF was released from 1998 to 1999, ford part code was 97FB-12A650-HC and calibration out of the workshop was AXPDAB4, with 97FBHC in the binary. This can be verified with available files.
But like mine, we can find other MUFF with a 2002 copyright, using calibration AXPDCB4, with 97FBHD in the binary.
97FBHD corresponds to the reference 97FB-12A650-HD identified for catch code 6ACA, still for the same car, but that simply does not exist on this car.
So, we really have 2 different MUFF versions on the road.
For hardware LP2-111, things are a bit more simple, only one reference, XS6F-12A650-AHB and one catch code TAPE.
Original calibration was AXPDCB2, with XS6FAHB in binary. But 2002 calibration is AXPDCE4, with XS6FAHC.
It seems TAPE catch code was used for Ford Racing Puma too, the one with calibration AXPDCB3 but with 1U7AAGA in binary.

Really easy no ?
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Vehicle 2 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Puma 1.7 VCT / EEC V LP2-110 MUFF AXPDCB4
Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
Additional Vehicles: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta XR2i / EEC IV SD111 1AFA
Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:32 pm

Your explantion indicates the first 4 letters are still the strategy name that a single definition would cover and the last 3 letters are various calibrations or tune changes within the strategy.

A quick binary comparison shows significant differences between some of them. Quite possibly more than could be covered by a single strategy.

Up to know i thought eec-v bins have had the strategy name in the bin, not the prefix and suffix of the engineering part number.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby decipha » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:50 am

the US binaries have a 7 character strategy tag in the binary, the first five are the strategy, the last 2 are the revision

for example as what has been posted

AXPDAB4

AXPDA is the strategy, B4 is the calibration revision

AXPDC B4 << note that its a newer strategy

and yet

AXPDC B2 << the same strategy just a different revision of the calibration

and again

AXPDC B3 << another revision of the same strategy


in most cases when henry makes an updated cal for a vehicle the new calibration will be a new strategy as its most usually the code that has been updated

for example

RZAO1 is the stock strategy for an 03 marauder US vehicle and BMD0 is the stock calibration
in 2004 an updated RZASA strategy was released with an updated CRD1 calibration for the 2003 marauders

^^just an example
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:11 am

Yes, both strategy name and part number are present in the binaries.
It is good to know, that we can not choose a strategy based on what is written outside the EEC, it is necessary to open the binary to select the good one.
For information, some technical differences for this cars and EEC.
DUDE & MUFF EEC use analog dashboard and are known to have a reduced torque limiter.
TAPE uses digital dashboard with an auto diagnostic, available from on it. Torque limiter should be more important.
Other EEC after 2000 use hardware LP2-318, same options than TAPE and another time a torque limiter more important.
DUDA, MUFF and TAPE seems to be 100% compatible between them, the others no.

Any advice on a method to make SAD work with these binaries ?
A stupid question, what hardware/software is required to flash an EEC V, through OBD or J3 port ?
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Vehicle Information: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta RS Turbo / EEC IV VM120 0FAB
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Vehicle 2 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Puma 1.7 VCT / EEC V LP2-110 MUFF AXPDCB4
Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
Additional Vehicles: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta XR2i / EEC IV SD111 1AFA
Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:49 am

Swap the bank order
MUFF_Bank_8_1.zip


A Ford WDS unit off ebay should be able to write it.
Investigate Forscan
Mongoose and Binary Editor, probably the dearest initial cost and repeat costs.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:08 am

jsa wrote:Swap the bank order
MUFF_Bank_8_1.zip


A Ford WDS unit off ebay should be able to write it.
Investigate Forscan
Mongoose and Binary Editor, probably the dearest initial cost and repeat costs.

Yes, I do it and TSAD was able to recognize file, but no way to generate a result, even with your file, TSAD always crashes.
I will find an Intel computer to retry. What is the difference between SAD and TSAD ?

Before buying hardware and software to play with EEC V, I will try to build a powered J1 connector with its ODB loom. It will be easier than doing it on cars.
It should exist 2 ODB versions for EEC V, but I suppose Pins are in the same place.
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Vehicle 2 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Puma 1.7 VCT / EEC V LP2-110 MUFF AXPDCB4
Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
Additional Vehicles: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta XR2i / EEC IV SD111 1AFA
Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:14 am

SAD was the first approach to disassembly, TSAD the second.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:15 pm

jsa wrote:SAD was the first approach to disassembly, TSAD the second.

No way to make TSAD work with this file, my version is from 24th of August 2014. Never seen another one and in fact never been able to disassemble a file with it.
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Vehicle Information: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta RS Turbo / EEC IV VM120 0FAB
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Vehicle 2 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Puma 1.7 VCT / EEC V LP2-110 MUFF AXPDCB4
Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
Additional Vehicles: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta XR2i / EEC IV SD111 1AFA
Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:53 pm

TSAD still works for me today.

I've attached the tsad executable I have here, though the version is the same.

Have a look at the properties of the BIN and EXE files, make sure they are unblocked as in not bearing the mark of the web.

Beyond that I'm at a loss as to why it works for me and not you.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:10 am

Thank you, same result for me with you version. We can follow this issue on this topic viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1260
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Vehicle Information: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta RS Turbo / EEC IV VM120 0FAB
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Vehicle 2 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Puma 1.7 VCT / EEC V LP2-110 MUFF AXPDCB4
Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
Additional Vehicles: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta XR2i / EEC IV SD111 1AFA
Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Tue May 02, 2017 3:26 am

Some news,
I am still working on the CVH 1.6 EFI strategies, trying to give a name to the last unidentified tables and functions (the empty ones) and trying to understand/identify idle speed and boost control valves.
In parallel, on the OFAB calibration, I am preparing changes on fueling, for other things getting better values from OFAC one (it seems better finished for some things), updating MAP transfer function (easy), all related comparisons (less easy) and reviewing all related tables (barometric pressure in not in the middle anymore, hard job).
For sure I have to admit, that working 100% offline is the the best way to work on it. I will probably install a quarterhorse to validate what was identified and modified.
For the next strategy, for sure on EEC V, it will be easier to work both offline and online to identify and check registers.

Still in parallel, I try to advance on the OBD topic. I have got some hardware, software that connects properly
But before doing mistakes on my running cars (and my working ECU), I am building a light ECU loom for OBD (at least) to work on unused EEC V.

I have not worked on AXPDC strategy, because I am still not able to disassemble them simply.
But I hope I will have more chance on ATAFH one (REED on EEC V MLP-427) from the Mondeo.
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Vehicle Information: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta RS Turbo / EEC IV VM120 0FAB
TunerPro on Moates chips
Vehicle 2 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Puma 1.7 VCT / EEC V LP2-110 MUFF AXPDCB4
Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
Additional Vehicles: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta XR2i / EEC IV SD111 1AFA
Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Tue May 02, 2017 5:53 am

:D
Cheers
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