CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

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CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby brade » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:03 pm

Hey did you ever get any fuel pump parameters added for CVAF1?

Is it possible to increase commanded fuel pressue via tune? Also, at one point we spoke about changing koeo fuel pump run time. My issue was I had to get rid of the check valve when installing a larger pump - everytime I go to start the car I need to cylce the key really quick 3 times. The pump doesnt run long enough to reprime an empty rail with just a single key on cycle. Ideally, I would turn the key on, wait a few seconds, then crank. I also own a 7.3L diesel so wait to start is sort of pre programmed into my motions.

Also, I have lean tip-in when cold, no fueling problems when warm. Car almost stalls on tip in at 20 degrees F without proper warmup. Increase the lower rows in table FN1361L?
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby decipha » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:56 am

i only add the ones i need as i need them

i dont get much free time so unless a premium member needs it i usually dont go through the trouble of adding things unless im in there regardless

there are desired fuel res function to command the rail pres desired doubtful ive add them

why would u have to get rid of the check valve for a larger pump?

actual fuel pump prime time iw nested pretty good in the code it woulfd take me quite a while to find it

the startup enichment tables are for global fuel correction when cold, u want to make sure the wideband
is reporting in the .95 -1.00 lambda range during warm up
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby brade » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:05 pm

Well, getting rid of the check valve was a last second decision. Someone else had already changed the fuel sending unit with an airtex model. The way the pump and check valve was set up on that sending unit, the outlet on the pump was a different size than the check valve inlet when I went to install the focus pump. Cheap aftermarket parts problems I guess. So in the heat of the moment I removed the check valve and just attached the hose since I didn't want to purchase a whole sending unit assembly.
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby brade » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:58 pm

A few things confuse me about spark adjustment.

In CVAF1 xdf you list the MBT spark table with the description "used for auto tv pressure calc" and you list BDL Knock table as "primary spark table"

The BDL spark table seems to make little sense as a spark table for the ECU. Heck, the top row is in single digits until 4K rpm. The MBT table looks more like the primary spark table but lacks the correct scalars/labels for columns and rows.

Which table to use? What is the differences between each of those tables, and what is the "Base Spark Table"? Sorry for the questions.
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby decipha » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:42 pm

all is correct

there are over 32 modifiers to spark to deliver an actual spark value, read the spark write up for details
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby brade » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:06 pm

I re-read through it. If the PCM is always using the lowest calculated values, why doesn't it follow these low BDL knock numbers?

The PCM never uses these low single digit numbers as far as I can tell with a log. The stock table is below. 2000 gt auto

5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0 6.0 6.0 10.0 16.0 23.0
5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0 9.0 10.0 12.0 13.0 17.0 25.0
5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0 7.0 12.0 13.0 13.0 15.0 18.0 26.0
5.0 5.0 5.0 8.0 10.0 16.0 18.0 18.0 20.0 24.0 28.0
5.0 5.0 9.0 14.0 16.0 21.0 23.0 24.0 26.0 30.0 32.0
5.0 10.0 14.0 20.0 21.0 24.0 25.0 28.0 28.0 34.0 36.0
20.0 22.0 32.0 34.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0
50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0
50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0

My stock bin for the old manual car actually shows even odder numbers to me, negaitves... 99 gt 5sp

-10.0 -10.0 -6.0 -3.0 0.0 4.0 6.0 6.0 10.0 16.0 21.0
-10.0 -8.0 -2.0 2.0 5.0 9.0 10.0 12.0 13.0 17.0 25.0
-10.0 -8.0 1.0 5.0 7.0 12.0 13.0 13.0 15.0 18.0 26.0
-10.0 -5.5 5.0 8.0 10.0 16.0 18.0 18.0 20.0 24.0 28.0
-8.0 5.0 9.0 14.0 16.0 21.0 23.0 24.0 26.0 30.0 32.0
-3.0 10.0 14.0 20.0 21.0 24.0 25.0 28.0 28.0 34.0 36.0
6.0 22.0 32.0 34.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0
22.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0
50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby decipha » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:27 am

the table value is absolutely useless without cross calculating the multipliers

for example a value of 50 could cross calculate out to give you 12 deg of timing where as a value of 10 can cross calculate out to give u a value of 32 deg of timing

your only looking at a very small portion of the bigger picture that's why I recommend simplifying timing so what u have in the table is what you get
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby brade » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:51 pm

Hm, yeah the multipliers are always throwing me for a loop. Simplifying sounds like the answer for me lol.

Speaking of spark tables.. when logging, I see the spark source pid but I have no references to which table that number is referring to. The most common are #1 and #8. I wasn't able to find a chart, I was hoping it would have been under the data logging pid writeup.

Also I noticed no more working injector duty cycle for cvaf1? It worked before on the older adx with older xdf. 20170226.adx. Neither do logging of FN772a and SPK_BDL.

I know completing CVAF1 isn't in your priority list since you've got no paying customers needing these changes. I just want to thank you for doing the tuning community such an awesome job without compensation. We all appreciate it.
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby brade » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:40 pm

I also cant find some OL fuel tables to modify commanded lambse. The only one I see is 1362X_LOST. I didn't see just a FN1362
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby decipha » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:05 am

i didnt notice the injdc wasn't working, the links got screwed when i combined the superlogger and QH universal adx's a while back, i hadn't realized it thanks

i'll add the spark source values in to the write up thanks, here the direct link https://www.efidynotuning.com/payloads.htm#spk_source

btw, i'll be adding some parameters to cvaf1 soon as i get a chance, i'll toss some fuel pump scalars in there i'll take a quick look around for the prime time but its very unlikely that i'll find it but i'll take a gander, if theres anything you need now is the time to speak up

i have 5 fuel tables in cvaf1 right now, don't know which xdf your using but here's the current
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby brade » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:12 pm

Awesome, thanks for the spark source. Makes it easier for me to grasp whats going on.

The table I was looking for was FN1360, which wasn't present in version I was using 112517 but is present in your newer linked 113017. FYI the 112517 is the one available from download screen.

You put me on the spot - I cant really think of anything major at the moment. I remember reading your guides and needing some additional dashpot/idle control stuff for the cammed car I had, but that was quite awhile ago (a year!) BUT it looks like you've added much since then. Adding in the scalars on the other spark tables to match MBT tables would be nice. Scalars the right name? Basically the column and row labels.
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby decipha » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:17 am

normalizing functions / axis scaling

yeah no prob
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby brade » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:01 am

Awesome, thanks.

Sort of related, but I know somewhere I saw a stoichiometric setting to adjust for different fuel types, specifically E85. I cant seem to find it anymore. Or do we do it via scaling?

I'm going to re-read your scaling for injector sizing as well. I am putting in 60lbers in the Mustang with the Lightning Supercharger. I know that a rating of 60lbs is too high for my PCM and everything would have to be scaled. But since I am adding in E85, wouldn't I be able to scale the injector size smaller to compensate for the additional fuel the e85 needs and be then be under the maximum clip? Or is it better to scale the injectors, then change the stoich afr commanded of the pcm. Seems like the latter would be more work for the same effect because of spark tables, engine size, maf transfer, ect.

Seems like the easy math would say take your high slope (60) / 14.7 stoich = 4.08 * 9.85 stoich = new slope of 40.2. Example numbers of course.
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby decipha » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:24 am

yes there is a stoich afr scalar if its not in the xdf i'll add it no problem

you typically wouldn't fudge the stoich difference in to the slopes as its just not ideal
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby brade » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:58 am

Hey, any updates to the XDF yet? You mentioned going through them early December and adding some stuff. Didn't know if you had yet.

Ive got E85 in the car now. Scaling the injector size really didn't seem to make it run well but I think the 60lbers I got are cheap fakes. Cant really do anything until I have a way to adjust for commanded AFR. I have some FRRP 47lbers laying around but I'm afraid they will be too small for a lightning setup on E85.
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby brade » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:33 pm

Bump
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby brade » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:18 pm

Also I'm a little confused on the scaling... thinking about buying some 80lb Fords after reading your article on why 80's are better.

Once you add the desired stoich scaler to the xdf, I must then scale my tune because the cars computer wont work with 80lb injectors. Once the tune is scaled properly, does the stoich scaler still work as intended? For 80lb, because of the low slope, the scaling percentage turns out to be around 1.89. Otherwise, I guess you could push it exactly 2 for ease of math.

While I'm at it.. do you prefer a different brand of injectors for the 80's? I always wondered about TREperformance. They claim genuine sieman deka injectors for $259. But how do you even tell what's real?
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby decipha » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:11 pm

yes the 80s are excellent pieces, i just put some 80s in an 06 3v earlier today swapping from the stock 24s. I loaded in the 80lb data and spun her up fuel was absolutely perfect, Its got the exact same maf curve in her she had before.

yea always cut the 80lb info in half unless u have to scale it more than that, just easier

no tre sells fake siemens deka injectors to go along with their now china made pumps. My dealer pricing is more than $300 ordering direct from the largest siemens dealer, keep in mind thats MY COST. Any siemens deka injectors sold for less than $340 are guaranteed fakes.

best to contact chris at poweraddersolutions.
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby brade » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:50 pm

Awesome thanks. BTW did you ever get anything done of the XDF for CVAF1?
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby decipha » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:43 pm

i dont think so i can check but i hadnt messed with cvaf1 in a bit
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93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby brade » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:26 am

Ok. You had mentioned entering a STOICH AFR adjustment and a few other things because of a project. I can't seem to get this car running well on e85. The tune is scaled for 80lbers (200%), and then the slopes are scaled for e85. I suppose I could try scaling MAF for e85 instead of the slopes. What does the STOICH scaled actually change?
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Re: CVAF1 Fuel Parameters

Unread postby decipha » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:22 pm

the stoich scalar is a global fuel multiplier

i added it to cvaf1 and posted it on the homepage

but thats not going to make any difference as far as tuning, you still need to dial in the startup enrichment and all

https://www.efidynotuning.com/downloads.htm
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
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