Nitrous info

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Nitrous info

Unread postby RIKIL » Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:08 pm

Is there a write up on nitrous somewhere? I looked but wasn't able to find anything. I'd like to learn about nitrous and understand what situations it would be good with and what types of things to avoid.
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby decipha » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:08 pm

nitrous is good for going fast in short bursts
avoid projected tip plugs, high heat range plugs, excessive timing, and running lean
typically you want to spray half the na hp the engine makes

yank a degree of timing for every 25hp
drop the plug a heat range for every 75hp
target 0.025 lambda richer for every 75 shot

nitrous is an oxygen adder thus the mafv will drop and be much lower at WOT

you always want a bottle warmer with a thermostat on it that automatically shuts off, its important to maintain the bottle pressure for consistency and safety

never spray a wet setup, use a dry setup only

I recommend a 0.086 nozzle (~280hp) shot on most all built sbf engines. You want to mount the nozzle on the inlet piping before the throttle body, just drill a hole tap it and screw it in. It doesnt matter if its before or after the maf as thats irrelevant.


My n2o code that i offer to premium members only is the safest way to spray nitrous and doesnt require switching tunes, however im revamping it for wideband closed loop control so its gonna be a bit before im done

in the meantime if your not a premium member the safest way to do it is to have the nitrous relay hooked to a flip chip so your n2o tune runs only when the n2o is on

tune wise you will want to use only a given spark advance at any given rpm, so in other words where spark would be advanced at lower loads thats a no no with your n2o tune since the drop in load will be using those cells

with fuel dialed in you can start by commanding a 0.56 lambse for a 125hp shot on an n/a setup, that will typically result in about an 0.82 wideband lambda on a 400hp setup when fuel is perfectly dialed in, you can approximate lambse to start based on your hp / setup, the more power the engine makes n/a the richer youll have to command, obviously if its boosted or more n2o youll have to command richer

nitrous is a torque adder, a big hit at once will upset traction, thats where staged setups come from, most folks spray a smaller shot off the line (say a 125 shot) then when they grab second they pour in the 2nd shot/stage (perhaps a 175 shot for a 300 shot total) in those instances youll need a controller, most controllers these days are progressive rate, it functions by dithering the n2o solenoid with a variable pulsewidth, most have a wideband input too and can dither the fuel solenoid (wet shot) to maintain a target lambda while progressing, expect to pay several hundred for the electronics alone

bottles, typically you get 6-8 passes out of a typical full bottle, most shops charge $40 to refill a bottle

its always a good idea to have an rpm "window" switch and a WOT switch on the throttle body.

The window switch is so you dont spray below a given rpm, if you try to spray too big of a shot at too low of an rpm you can choke the engine out. Typically youd spray at 3k rpm up to about 300 rpm shy of your shift point, when the n2o cuts off you know its time to shift (call it a shift aid)

you dont want the n2o spraying through the shift when you get out the throttle (disregard if an auto)

tuning wise you want to make sure it rich spikes and doesnt lean spike when the n2o is first engaged

now keep in mind when i finish up on my new revision of the n2o code (even with my old code) you dont need a wot switch or an rpm window switch

when i finish up the new code ill be posting up a wiring diagram for it to wire it up to the ecu as well as a full write up

thats about it, anything else just ask
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby RIKIL » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:37 am

Good info, very informative. This should be the start of a write-up, if not already.

I did read that the shot should not be added before 3k RPM, would not do me any good. 3K is where my motor 'gets into it' so I could really benefit from something from 1500 - 3000 RPM range.
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby decipha » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:52 am

why not just launch at a higher rpm?

you can spray nitrous right off idle if you want you just can't spray a huge shot, a little 25 shot off idle progressing to a 50 shot by 1500 ramping up to a 125 shot at 3k should suit you nicely
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby RIKIL » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:00 am

decipha wrote:why not just launch at a higher rpm?

I guess I am just not that experienced with launching with my auto trans...not sure what might cause damage or not.

decipha wrote:you can spray nitrous right off idle if you want you just can't spray a huge shot, a little 25 shot off idle progressing to a 50 shot by 1500 ramping up to a 125 shot at 3k should suit you nicely
sign me up. when will you be done with your kit? 8-)
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby decipha » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:32 am

i don't do nitrous kits, you can order one online

but if your only coming off the like just above idle you probably want to throw a converter in it first, the e4od is a bit clunky trans, its not a high performance trans by any means its purpose is for heavy duty truck use which is what its intended for, best bet would be to toss a converter in it to help get your truck off the line, a 3500 stall would suit you nicely, but once you factor in the cost of a converter and the old trans you'd be much better off snatching a much more performance oriented 4r70w from a 99-01 v8 explorer or 98-03 v6 mustang, you can get a dacco high factory stall stock replacement converter (~2600 rpm) for them for $100 at your local transtar. That's the same factory spec converter for a mark 8 and 03 mach 1. You'll need to get a new 10.65" pattern flexplate with your balancing weight for the converter to bolt up to though. It would still be cheaper than trying to work with outdated e4od. You can wire up the trans to the ecu and control it like stock too.
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby RIKIL » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:49 pm

As for the E4OD, I am getting it rebuilt soon, it failed me just like it did in July of last year. I have done a lot of research on this and the 4r70w is not as heavy duty as the E4OD. Since the E4OD also goes behind diesel motors, they can be built to handle the hp/tq, the trans guy just needs to know what he is doing. They guy who will be doing the trans did tell me I would be getting a new converter, I'll make sure it has that stall rating. I think the current trans does.
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby decipha » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:23 pm

the 4r70w not being as heavy duty is just a myth, yea its true the e4od/4r100 is much heavier built (and slower) but the 4r70w is more than capable of doing everything the bigger trans can, the real strength on the bigger trans is the tq converter, when you get a built converter for the 4r70w they use the 4r100 hub so its a push

just for reference I ditched the 4r100 in my old harley truck and upgraded to the 4r70w, i also have a new built 4r70w to upgrade from the perfectly fine 4r100 in it now on my newer harley truck which is going to see roughly ~1000 rwhp/rwtq, id never trust an e4od/4r100 trans for high performance applications
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby RIKIL » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:08 pm

awww man, you are killing me :) I love new projects. I remember looking into this last time we discussed my trans and I didn't want to mess with it. However, if I can lose less power with this trans and make it work with a transfer case, I might do it. Might be about the same price as the E4OD work too.

I found this guy, going to call him tomorrow and ask some questions - http://tinyurl.com/hxnak8p
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby RIKIL » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:58 pm

decipha wrote:the 4r70w not being as heavy duty is just a myth, yea its true the e4od/4r100 is much heavier built (and slower) but the 4r70w is more than capable of doing everything the bigger trans can, the real strength on the bigger trans is the tq converter, when you get a built converter for the 4r70w they use the 4r100 hub so its a push

just for reference I ditched the 4r100 in my old harley truck and upgraded to the 4r70w, i also have a new built 4r70w to upgrade from the perfectly fine 4r100 in it now on my newer harley truck which is going to see roughly ~1000 rwhp/rwtq, id never trust an e4od/4r100 trans for high performance applications


What will be the gearing in your rear-end of the harley truck?
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:33 am

stock 3.73s, after i swapped the 4r70w in my old truck i swapped 3.55s in it shortly there after and put bigger tires on it to gear it down a whole bunch so it cruised at a better rpm when in the triple digits, I was driving 6 hours round trip everyday in my old truck so i figured it would help. I plan on sticking with the stock rear end on this one til i blow it up, when that time comes the determining factor is going to be dependent upon which direction the wind just so happens to be blowing that day. Its a tow truck to haul my toys around, not a race truck so i care very little about max effort out of it. I pray the stocker holds up for a bit.
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby RIKIL » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:54 pm

D- do you have any idea when you will be done with the tune that is able to use NO2?

Also, what about the water/meth I have installed now. Is that a factor at all?
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:38 pm

it'll be a bit for cbaza, cbaza's a pain cuz it has no free rom, there's only so much stuff you can delete
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby red5.0fogger » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:35 am

Rikil, your truck could use some lower gears like 4.56. Or a higher stall as Decipha said. One or both would be great to let the engine into the sweet spot quicker. If the motor runs hard at 3000 try a convertor near that stall. Wake it right up.
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby RIKIL » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:46 pm

red5...yeah I know, if I want a better lower end I need to re-gear. If it was only the rear I might have done it a while ago but it is 4x4 and just haven't wanted to do that.

However, some good news, at least it saves me $3k...the trans seems to be working fine now. I had two issues that I found, first was the EPC wire on the solenoid pack was loose, no pressure, no fun. Second was I got bit by the one biggest weakness in the Baumann Transmission Controller...for that to work it needs a 47k ohm, 1/2 watt resistor in line of the VSS signal. That failed intermittently. Quick fix once I find it, I have a dozen extra resistors just for times like this.
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby JETFAST » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:07 pm

I spray nitrous every way, "They Say" not too. Below 3k.....hell...off idle..... EVEN ON THE TRANS BRAKE!!!! :mrgreen: :shock: :twisted:
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby decipha » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:37 pm

^^ I do too u just gotta be careful not to choke it down

we have a guy local ali that sprayed a 600 shot just off idle and hurt the engine pretty good, it was even aired on tv lol

just keep it within reason and all will be well
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby JETFAST » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:40 pm

I have a small block nitrous car in ultra street, currently 750 single entry dry set up. I have sprayed 1500+ off idle... I am well aware.
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:58 pm

nice, any vid's or photos you want to add in the garage section? That'd be a nice car to check out
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby SlowBox » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:50 am

JETFAST wrote:I have a small block nitrous car in ultra street, currently 750 single entry dry set up. I have sprayed 1500+ off idle... I am well aware.


I sprayed my old red car with a .068" jet up against the stall at about 2k and had great success with it. I did set an air cleaner on fire getting up on the limiter with a nitrous backfire though.
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Re: Nitrous info

Unread postby JETFAST » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:46 pm

Only time I have had back fires that blew the air filter apart, caught on fire, ect...it was pegging the injector 100-140% on the duty cycle.
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