Missing something (newbie)

Vehicle specific forum for tuning the Foxbody Chassis Mustangs utilizing decipha's GUFX Strategy

Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:31 pm

Hey guys, bare with me on this post. I am new to tuning and trying my best to wrap my brain around all this. I am using the A9L2 base and adjusting accordingly. I have a basic H/C/I combo but struggling to get the car even drive-able. It sounds like it is running rough and when i put it in 1st (manual), and try to drive it just stumbles almost like it is missing. Before i started using the QH and TP it did drive just fine but those cats got extra red after a 2.5mi drive home from the shop. Now it is not drive-able after loading the A9L2 tune. Long story short, i messed up downloading the current bin from the ECU before loading the new tune.

I have attached the bin and log file and could use some guidance here. I followed the A9L2 minimum requirements. I have injector data but no flow sheet for my Pro-M 80 "calibrated" for 24lb. I just used the formula in the MAF write-up and multiplied the stock transfer sheet by 1.26 to get started. I feel like i am running rich as my cats (sorry, CA car) are getting red hot and it discourages me from continuing to tune. The car did NOT have smog equipment on it when i got it and i just recently put all the stuff back on. I don't know if i am missing something else regarding the somg stuff in the tune that would cause this issue. I know i must be missing something "fairly" simple here. I added 5* to FN2022 for my TW heads. I used the injector data provided by Michael. Since i do have smog stuff i changed that setting back to 1. I also changed the Cranking PW using the formula and multiplied by .79. My idle set screw has definitely been messed with and could also be an issue. I am confused by reading the live data dashboards as some of the parameters don't change at all. Any help would be appreciated.

Warmly,
Dave
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:56 pm

your tune looks excellent
you need to set pfehp to 0 to enable the egr

your log is all corrupt looks like your using the wrong adx. Are you using the 190531 adx included with the gufx xdf ?

if the exhaust is glowing red that means ignition timing is severely retarded
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:42 pm

Wow I wasn't expecting the tune to be "excellent" haha, so thank you! Ok, i will make that change to the EGR setting.

So could the wrong ADX be causing my issue?

I will have to recheck the base timing this weekend BUT, if it's still set at 10* btdc what else can be causing this? I assume you looked at FN2022 and that looked good based on your comment. I guess the balancer could have slipped?

Much appreciated,
Dave
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:09 pm

using the wrong outdated adx as you have can corruot the tune and cause some issues doubtful anything like that though

yea verify base timing and slipped balancers are common see them all the time
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Bad86capri » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:54 am

As Decipha stated check for a slipped balancer. This happened to years ago and caused all kinds issues.
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:37 pm

Well....Slipped balancer seems to be the culprit. Using the correct ADX seemed to help a little at idle but after she was warm and pulling the spout, timing was way retarded. It looked close to 3*. So i guess it is time for a new balancer. I couldn't see any rubber protruding from the balancer but it did appear slightly separated against the housing. Now, for my own edification, if the timing WAS set correctly at a point in time and never had the dizzy moved, the slipped balancer can't change the timing correct? I have a feeling that the balancer was slipping with the previous owner and they set the timing to what they thought was 10* but really wasn't and obviously the slipping has gotten worse over time.
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:00 pm

yep thays typically how it plays out
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:08 am

Ok, so i am going to be installing a new balancer on Tuesday so definitely will report back for a conclusion to this go around, but wanted to ask about fuel pressure real quick. I have seen several different ideas on this site regarding what the psi should be. I have see Decipha post in the write-ups 55lbs and others 49-40. With my mods, what should i be setting to? Appreciate the feedback :)
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:37 am

raising the fuel pressure gives you better emissions due to better atomization thats why all never vehicles run 58-65psi base fuel pressure but usually on these older vehicles most people have to up it to increase injector flow rate if you have borderline injectors which any healthy hci 302 is going to need 30lb injectors minimum

Back in 2007 when I swapped a 351w in my tbird I ran my injectors at 80psi base since I had stock 19s at the time which made them flow as a 26lb injector
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:15 pm

Awesome! Thanks for the reply and info. I will adjust the pressure accordingly. Is there anything i need to do in the tune if up the pressure?
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:50 pm

yes you will need to dial in the injectors for a rough estimate to get started you can assume a multiplier of 1% per 1 psi of fuel pressure increased. So if you have data at 40psi and kick it up to 65psi then (65-40 == 25%) go multiply the high slope, low slope, offset, and breakpoint by 1.25

You will then need to dial in the injectors.
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:11 am

Ok so it appears that the fuel pressure was waaaaaaay to high and causing my issue. I replaced the balancer anyways and set the pressure accordingly and was able to drive home with no glowing cats!

Now, I’m just a little confused by your last comment based on you recommending to change the high/low slope, offset and breakpoint BUT then also said “you will then need to dial in the injectors”. That’s what’s confusing me because aren’t all those changes for the injectors?
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:56 am

yes but u need to dial in the injectors since no published data exists for yours
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:11 pm

They are published on the injector section of your write ups. They are the BOSCH 0280150947 which loads on the flow data page. Is that what you are referring to?
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:57 pm

Ok, so i adjusted the offset,low/high slope and breakpoint accordingly. When i start her up the idle hangs at around 1700 for a little then drops to 1100 and surges, i can't get her to drop below 1k and can't figure out what i need to do. I do not understand how to log IPSIBR. I see it in the write-ups and other users posts but have no clue how to "log" it in TP. I have all the settings in place for the Mechanical Idle write-up but one thing looks odd to me and that is that my FN875N shows DSDRPM with 6 values, 1-5 being 0 and 6 being 4080. The AM column shows all 0.602. not understanding that one. Anyways, i can't pull the spout, tps or IAC without her dying. sigh....
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:58 pm

ah yes if the data is there then go ahead and plug it in and use it no need in altering it til after you get your fuel dialed in

compare your tune to the a9l2 to see where you went astray as its already set up correctly in there

if it won't come down to a stable idle once warmed up then you have some issues going on

IPSIBR logs automatically its all in the getting started write up
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:46 pm

Ok so I set my fuel pressure to 50psi to start and multiplied the offset, breakpoint and slopes by 1.10. Should I have not done that? I can set them back to what they were if that’s what you’re saying?

I’m a comparing the A9l2 tune to look at FN875N since it’s off?

What could be some issues if I can’t get it down? Any help or ideas are welcomed.

I read the write ups but don’t understand if the IPSIBR is something I can actually see or is it just a calculation?
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:19 pm

no thats fine

fn875 doesnt require any adjustment in the a9l2

if its idling that high then ipsibr is going o be at 0. once the engine gets up to warm operating temp close the throttle stop to bring the idle down.

IPSIBR is how much air is being added to maintain idle its a logged value on the dashboard at the upper right
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00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:07 pm

Ok gotcha! Thank you for the replies! I will take a look tomorrow and compare FN875.

Now just so I’m clear, based on all the online info, I need to unplug iac before closing the throttle stop?

Ok yes I believe I changed that value by accident on the dashboard but will look to change it back and then this will most likely start clicking.
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:24 pm

unplug the iac and spout when closing the throttle no need in unplugging the tps unless you have to open it.
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94 5spd Rionda
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03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:44 pm

Sounds good, thank you sir. I’ll report back tomorrow
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:52 am

Really frustrated. So got her up to warm temp and the idle did drop down this morning but has a horrible surge. Every-time i tried to pull the spout and IAC she died. Couldn't really get to a point to close the blade but tried. I did load the proper dashboard and took a log. I really can't understand what is happening. I did see the IPSIBR was down below 1k and during the surge. Just don't know why she won't keep running with spout and IAC disconnected.

Also, i downloaded a new A9L2 just to make sure i'm not crazy and it does show the FN875N as i previously described;

DSDRPM | AM
4080 0.602
0 0.602
0 0.602
0 0.602
0 0.602
0 0.602

The Stock A9L has different values that look like they should be there. Is there a reason behind the A9L2 looking like this? Could this be causing my issues? Just a reminder that when i got this Fox, she had all smog removed, SCT chip, Off-Road X and ran super rich with an uncapped port on upper intake but idled fine and drove just fine, except for that vacuum leak and slight bucking at constant rpm BUT did run.
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:32 pm

yes fn875 should be all .6 that is correct
yes thats due the a9l2 having a different idle strategy than the a9l. No it cannot cause any issues.
I see you enabled the egr ...very nice

250 -19

you can clearly see in your log the lambses drop and the surge start. Your o2s are not working at idle. Are they new hegos?

I set niold to 0 to force it in to open loop at closed throttle

Since your maf is known and your injectors need to be dialed in I cut the offset back by 10% and kicked up the low slope by 10% to lean it out and doubled the breakpoint down low
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:11 pm

First off, THANK YOU! Not getting my hopes up but after using that Bin you sent that has been the best she's idled since starting with tuning.

So i guess my MAF is known but i don't have the flow sheet from Pro-M, so i just used the calculation to get them "Calibrated" to the 24's.

What is the 250 -19 in reference to?

The 02's are new with probably less than 50 mi on them but def a lot of time under a heavily rich conditions idling and while tuning so maybe they're shot? I also feel like i need to check the ground pigtails from them and make sure that isn't adding to this problem.

So since those changes you made and listed above, how do i go about dialing in the injectors and adjusting the changes you made? I am assuming the changes you made will have to be altered after i dial in the injectors? Also still a little hazy on what "dialing in injectors" means after the offset, slopes and breakpoint are changed! I'm guessing you are talking about logging and taking drives?

I just went and took a log from startup and idle only. Did not touch the throttle at all.
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:20 pm

dont need the flow sheet. If its cald for 24s then the maf curve is known. See the maf write up for details.

imaf and err
at 250 maf counts the o2s were yanking 19% fuel
Since your maf is known and your injectors do not have published data the error was in the injectors. Hence why I adjusted them to dial them in more.

your o2s are fine it takes ALOT to ruin them short of spraying liquid fuel burning oil or water

I'll look over your log here shortly, in order to dial in injectors you have to use the fuel error b1 histogram and try to hit as many areas of the plot as you can as many times as you can. Using the running average you can then dial in the injectors to make the plot as close to the same error for all cells as you can.
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:31 pm

that looks horrible

IPSIBR was wayyyy up there adding 524% more air than it should to reach idle. You need to open your throttle stop significantly to give it more air to idle correctly. Thats why its surging.

Open the throttle stop by 3/4 of a full turn to give it more air to idle correctly then verify ipsibr is at 0 at warm stable idle.
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:51 pm

gross indeed :)

Ok here is another log after getting the IPSIBR to 0 (or near it).

The Hego's seemed be bouncing around more from what i saw but still i need to check them out
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Vehicle Information: 93 Lx A9L2/GUFX,QH w/TPRT. Trick Flow Heads, TFS-1, Ported Cobra Intake, 75mm TB, 24#BOSCH, PRO-M 80mm, Magnaflow CA Catted X. T5 3.73.

Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:30 pm

no point in re-posting the tune if you hadn't made any changes. its the same tune as posted above.

that surge at idle is due to your idle fuel being off. The o2 sensor voltage fluctuating rapidly between 0v and 1v like that is usually due to the capacitors in the ecu being busted open with their guts spilled out.
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Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:49 pm

uhhhhhhhh that doesn't sound good at all :/

Are you saying my ECU is toast? Could it be a ground issue from the sensor?
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Vehicle Information: 93 Lx A9L2/GUFX,QH w/TPRT. Trick Flow Heads, TFS-1, Ported Cobra Intake, 75mm TB, 24#BOSCH, PRO-M 80mm, Magnaflow CA Catted X. T5 3.73.

Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:02 pm

no the ecu isn't toast just the capacitors are probably bad. Just simply open it up and replace them.

could be a ground but doubtful by how much it swings
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decipha
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Posts: 18231
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:45 am

Ok I will take a look at the capacitors for sure! Guess I’ll hold off on adjusting the tune until I can fix the ECU.
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Vehicle Information: 93 Lx A9L2/GUFX,QH w/TPRT. Trick Flow Heads, TFS-1, Ported Cobra Intake, 75mm TB, 24#BOSCH, PRO-M 80mm, Magnaflow CA Catted X. T5 3.73.

Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:00 am

Hey Decipha,

Sorry for my long delay. I went and visited family and just go the capacitors fixed in the ECU. I connected everything back up yesterday and fired her up. Seem to have a better idle. Question for you is whether i can leave the noild set to 0 or should i put that back to 31.875 which is what it was at before? You noted above you changed it to 0 to force it in OL at closed idle, but I am wondering if it can stay like that? Do you make that change temporarily to tune and check other parameters? When do you put it back to a value?
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Vehicle Information: 93 Lx A9L2/GUFX,QH w/TPRT. Trick Flow Heads, TFS-1, Ported Cobra Intake, 75mm TB, 24#BOSCH, PRO-M 80mm, Magnaflow CA Catted X. T5 3.73.

Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:53 am

Ok here is another log after fixing the capacitors. Seems like the surge is definitely better, very small. But she seems to hang up in the RPM's longer than i feel like she should after startup and just in general.
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Foxy93
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Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:18 pm
Location: San Diego
Name: Dave
Vehicle Information: 93 Lx A9L2/GUFX,QH w/TPRT. Trick Flow Heads, TFS-1, Ported Cobra Intake, 75mm TB, 24#BOSCH, PRO-M 80mm, Magnaflow CA Catted X. T5 3.73.

Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby decipha » Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:01 pm

i didn't look over the log but put her in closed loop now and see if the fuel corrects if it does then just dial int the fuel the isc multiplier table and dashpot and you should be good to go
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decipha
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Posts: 18231
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Missing something (newbie)

Unread postby Foxy93 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:34 pm

That sounds encouraging yet still frighting haha i have to get back in the tuning mindset and get back to reading your write-ups. Feel like all the knowledge left my head when i cool'd down on the subject. Go figure. Thanks for you help Decipha and hope to not keep bugging all of you :)
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Vehicle Information: 93 Lx A9L2/GUFX,QH w/TPRT. Trick Flow Heads, TFS-1, Ported Cobra Intake, 75mm TB, 24#BOSCH, PRO-M 80mm, Magnaflow CA Catted X. T5 3.73.


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