The neverending idle problem

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Re: The neverending idle problem

Unread postby 95Ranger5.0 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:17 pm

I believe I did what you intended. I took HEGO1 from bank 1, moved it to bank 2 and plugged the pigtail into to bank 2's wiring. Then I took HEGO2 from bank 2, moved it to bank 1 and plugged the pigtail into bank 1's wiring. The only thing that moved was the sensors. I confirmed the O2 sensor wiring is installed correctly, plus each wire on the MG-70 is marked with it’s purpose, e.g. LEFT O2, RIGHT O2, etc.

Over the past few days, I did an experiment. I have four O2 sensors – the two Ford sensors originally on the motor and two new Bosch sensors. I installed the two original sensors and went for a drive while logging the data. Once everything cooled off, I unplugged each sensor at the pigtail, switched them side to side, and went for a drive on the same route while logging the data. Next, I installed the two Bosch sensors and went for the same drive. Lastly, I switched the Bosch sensors side to side and did the final drive. Datalogs for all four drives are attached. The main thing I noticed is STFT1 is noticeably greater than STFT2 virtually any time the engine is running regardless of which sensor is installed on which side. This would seem to imply the sensors are not the source of the difference. What else could cause this?
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95Ranger5.0
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Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:56 pm
Name: Jeff
Vehicle Information: 1995 Ranger Splash 5.0 / T5
GUFB / A9L / QH / BE
TFS Track Max cam, Explorer upper & lower intake, Tri-Y headers with 2 1/2" exhaust, factory 8.8 with 3.55s
Explorer FEAD with all accessories shoehorned into the stock Ranger engine compartment

Re: The neverending idle problem

Unread postby dleach1407 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:21 am

The new sensors seem to switch faster than the old and seem to have the exact same output regardless of location based on the logs. They also are not dropping all the way to 0 like the old ones. With the new sensors, the fuel trims between banks are close to linear. At idle, the variance is about 5-6%. Cruising, its more like 6-7% so its really close now but you still have a variance between banks. It seems the new sensors did help. How does it run with the new sensors? Are you still experiencing surging/idle hunting? I know you had said the new injectors seemed to help a with that but I wanted to verify you are still experiencing the same thing. If you still have surging, dont worry, the maf curve still needs work but I feel we are really close now. I am just not 100% sure how much of a variance is normal between banks. I would think 6% is too much. My car only has 1 sensor and I lost all of my old logs with cars that had dual sensors to compare to.

@Decipha How much of a variance between banks is considered normal? Do you have any suggestions on things to check?
dleach1407
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Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:13 pm
Vehicle Information: 1995 Mustang T5 CBAZA/T4M2 Moates QH BE or TpRT
331 10.2:1 compression, TFS 11r 190 56cc heads
HPX MAF 3.25 OD tube with SaxonPC air straightener
F303 Cam, 1.6 Miller Mid-Lift rockers
T5 with an XTD clutch that somehow holds my power
80lb Dekas, Stock lines and rails 340LPH in tank
Minor upgraded T5 with counter gear stiffening plate
76mm On3 turbo, HP hotside, Custom coldside
560WHP and 606TQ 8lbs tapering to 6 91 octane
27degrees total timing.
Vehicle 2 Information: 1957 Ford F100
Mustang II front suspension -done
C-notched rear frame - done
Luxury ECU using RZASA - have
Fuel injected explorer 302 - have
4r70W -have

Lots of stuff planned including air bags and twin 55mm turbos.

Re: The neverending idle problem

Unread postby decipha » Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:28 am

the whole purpose in dual hegos is due to the fact that both sides aren't exact. With that said on bone stock healthy engine both banks are usually within a couple percent through out the entire range.

Its not too uncommon for idle to have 10% variance from bank to bank but anything more than that I would start investigating.

As you come up on airflow and get closer to half throttle both banks should be exactly the same ~ +/- 3% or so but usually identical.

common causes of bank inconsistencies is air leaks, vac leaks, intake gaskets slipped, even injector o rings not secured, or pcv issues.
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Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
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Re: The neverending idle problem

Unread postby dleach1407 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:47 am

Thanks for the quick reply! There are times within the logs when the fuel trims cruising are almost the same but if you average the low and high values for both, they stay pretty consistent at 6% variance through the whole range. The STFT values are different at idle vs cruise but the variance between banks still stays about 6%. During cruise the TP is less than 2v in most cases so I dont believe he is seeing half throttle during cruise. Would you say this is still a mechanical issue or would you say this could be chalked up to differences between banks?
dleach1407
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Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:13 pm
Vehicle Information: 1995 Mustang T5 CBAZA/T4M2 Moates QH BE or TpRT
331 10.2:1 compression, TFS 11r 190 56cc heads
HPX MAF 3.25 OD tube with SaxonPC air straightener
F303 Cam, 1.6 Miller Mid-Lift rockers
T5 with an XTD clutch that somehow holds my power
80lb Dekas, Stock lines and rails 340LPH in tank
Minor upgraded T5 with counter gear stiffening plate
76mm On3 turbo, HP hotside, Custom coldside
560WHP and 606TQ 8lbs tapering to 6 91 octane
27degrees total timing.
Vehicle 2 Information: 1957 Ford F100
Mustang II front suspension -done
C-notched rear frame - done
Luxury ECU using RZASA - have
Fuel injected explorer 302 - have
4r70W -have

Lots of stuff planned including air bags and twin 55mm turbos.

Re: The neverending idle problem

Unread postby decipha » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:05 am

I wouldn't be concerned with 6%.

I just looked over the tune and it appears to only be a base 87 octane startup tune with maf plugged in and emissions disabled.

air fuel and spark will need to be dialed in before the engine runs optimally or 'ideal'

Id recommend swapping to tunerpro, starting with the a9l2 slapping the explorer maf transfer in it which i have listed and go from there.
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decipha
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Posts: 18194
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: The neverending idle problem

Unread postby dleach1407 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:27 am

decipha wrote:Id recommend swapping to tunerpro, starting with the a9l2 slapping the explorer maf transfer in it which i have listed and go from there.


That was the plan once we got this figured out. Sounds like its time to make the switch!
dleach1407
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Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:13 pm
Vehicle Information: 1995 Mustang T5 CBAZA/T4M2 Moates QH BE or TpRT
331 10.2:1 compression, TFS 11r 190 56cc heads
HPX MAF 3.25 OD tube with SaxonPC air straightener
F303 Cam, 1.6 Miller Mid-Lift rockers
T5 with an XTD clutch that somehow holds my power
80lb Dekas, Stock lines and rails 340LPH in tank
Minor upgraded T5 with counter gear stiffening plate
76mm On3 turbo, HP hotside, Custom coldside
560WHP and 606TQ 8lbs tapering to 6 91 octane
27degrees total timing.
Vehicle 2 Information: 1957 Ford F100
Mustang II front suspension -done
C-notched rear frame - done
Luxury ECU using RZASA - have
Fuel injected explorer 302 - have
4r70W -have

Lots of stuff planned including air bags and twin 55mm turbos.

Re: The neverending idle problem

Unread postby 95Ranger5.0 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:56 pm

I downloaded and installed Tunerpro. Unfortunately, winter weather has arrived which puts a kink in my plans - we're supposed to get our first snowflakes tomorrow. With little weight on the rearend and soft summer tires that get hard when it's below 40°F, I'm probably going to put it up for the winter and work on some other upgrades. I'll spend the next few months learning Tunerpro and reading up on A9L2 so I'll be ready in the spring. The engine is running well, doesn't hunt at idle, and starts without needing my foot on the gas pedal whether warm or cold. Thanks for all the help getting back up and running correctly. I'll start a new thread as I have questions that aren't already answered on the board.
95Ranger5.0
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Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:56 pm
Name: Jeff
Vehicle Information: 1995 Ranger Splash 5.0 / T5
GUFB / A9L / QH / BE
TFS Track Max cam, Explorer upper & lower intake, Tri-Y headers with 2 1/2" exhaust, factory 8.8 with 3.55s
Explorer FEAD with all accessories shoehorned into the stock Ranger engine compartment

Re: The neverending idle problem

Unread postby dleach1407 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:35 am

I understand the winter thing. Remember, your tune is essentially a stock A9L tune with the Maf changed. It will be very easy to set you up with a base tune that will be essentially the same as your current tune, just based on A9L2. Then you just need to fine tune it. The starting point will probably be closer than your current tune regarding the MAF values. If you need help or simply want a good starting point, let me know. I can easily create the base tune for you.
dleach1407
A+ Contributor
 
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:13 pm
Vehicle Information: 1995 Mustang T5 CBAZA/T4M2 Moates QH BE or TpRT
331 10.2:1 compression, TFS 11r 190 56cc heads
HPX MAF 3.25 OD tube with SaxonPC air straightener
F303 Cam, 1.6 Miller Mid-Lift rockers
T5 with an XTD clutch that somehow holds my power
80lb Dekas, Stock lines and rails 340LPH in tank
Minor upgraded T5 with counter gear stiffening plate
76mm On3 turbo, HP hotside, Custom coldside
560WHP and 606TQ 8lbs tapering to 6 91 octane
27degrees total timing.
Vehicle 2 Information: 1957 Ford F100
Mustang II front suspension -done
C-notched rear frame - done
Luxury ECU using RZASA - have
Fuel injected explorer 302 - have
4r70W -have

Lots of stuff planned including air bags and twin 55mm turbos.

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